SoulStirred: Stories of Growth And The Human Experience

Emily Garcia (00:03)
Welcome lovely listeners to SoulStirred Stories of Growth and the Human Experience. I'm Emily Garcia. And I'm Kasey Clark. We will be your guides on this journey. We are so glad you are here. Each week, we'll come together, sometimes with other incredible thinkers, creators, and adventurers, to generously share stories of self-discovery, recovery, triumph, and what it means to live a life on purpose. No matter where you are in your own journey,

connection is here for you at SoulStirred Settle in, take a deep breath in, and let's inspire each other. Welcome to SoulStirred

Emily (00:49)
Welcome back SoulStard listeners. We are so excited to share with you all of the things that Casey and I have going on right now and in the near future. We have started a 66 day gratitude challenge. This is really fun. It is free to join. You can find information at tribemindbody .com forward slash gratitude. We also are really excited about this episode today.

We are going to be talking about Mother's Day and celebrating all of the forms that Mother's Day can take for different people. And we're going to talk about our relationship with motherhood and the different colors, shapes, sizes motherhood can show up as. So start us off, Casey. Tell me about when you first remember it, remember wanting to become a mom.

Kasey (01:43)
Oh, well, you know for me, because you know me really well, you probably learned by now I'm an experiential learner. So what that means is I don't know specifically much about what I love or like or dislike until I'm in it. And the same is true for my relationship with motherhood. I became pregnant with my first child when I was 21.

And I was unmarried, which in my family history and culture is a big deal because we were raised in the Catholic Church and one of the things that you're taught is not okay is to become with child out of wedlock. So I was unmarried and in a fairly new relationship with my son's father. He was in the army.

and he had sort of pursued me. I was a waitress at the time after I waited on him and what eventually became my stepson. And so because he was getting orders and moving around with the army, we had only been seeing each other for a few weeks when he found out he was getting moved down to Colorado Springs to be stationed at Fort Carson and asked me to go with him.

Emily (03:04)
Wow.

Kasey (03:05)
And it was in a few weeks after that that we found out that my son had arrived in my belly. And I was young and I was startled by the news to say the least, but I also was overjoyed. In that moment right away, I just knew that I was meant to be this child's mother.

Emily (03:35)
Wow.

Kasey (03:36)
And so, yeah, everything in me knew that it was a yes. In fact, I remember at the time I didn't have health insurance. And so I was visiting a Planned Parenthood to take a pregnancy test and find out, you know, what were the results. And I got the results back immediately. And so that night, the child's father and I were laying in bed talking about our choices. And he said,

you know, would you consider having an abortion? And I just started crying and said, I can't, I just can't. And he said, I said, would you consider having the baby and giving it up for adoption? And he started crying. He had been adopted. And so for him, that felt like reopening a wound. And he said, I just can't.

Emily (04:07)
Mm.

Kasey (04:30)
And then we looked at each other in the eye and we both started crying and said, I guess we're having a baby. And so we took it as, you know, a sign from the universe. We had fallen so passionately, deeply in love so fast that us and of course now having the benefit of hindsight. The story I have heard myself tell people is it's almost like it was the soul of our son out there.

Emily (04:35)
Wow.

Kasey (04:59)
Knowing I need you two to come together so that I can you know have a vehicle to get myself onto the planet Because we really were attracted to each other like magnets and Ironically, this is a story for another episode, but almost immediately when that baby was born the relationship was through it's like we did what we came together to do and Once that was complete. So were we?

Emily (05:19)
Mm.

Kasey (05:26)
And in a way that was like really no hard feelings. It was just we loved each other so much that our love spilled over into this other human being. And then our assignment was complete.

Emily (05:37)
Yeah, your love created.

Kasey (05:40)
Yeah, yeah. And true to my family history and Catholic culture upbringing, I remember one of the first phone calls I made was to my older brother. And when I told him I'm pregnant, his first words were, wow. And then, don't think this means you have to get married. However, when we went to tell my parents that we were having a baby,

Emily (05:59)
Thank you.

Kasey (06:09)
my mom responded much differently and looked at my, at the time, you know, child's father and said, what are you going to do about this? And his response was something to the effect of, well, I love your daughter. And I was hoping to marry her anyway. I was just hoping to do it later instead of now. So I guess it'll be now. And by the time we got back to our house, about 45 minutes later in Colorado Springs, my mom was calling to say, what color do you want your bridesmaids dresses to be?

Emily (06:16)
Hmm.

Wow.

Kasey (06:39)
So yeah, we had met in February, moved in together in March and found out later in March we were pregnant. And then the following that April 23rd, we were married, which incidentally happens to be my brother's birthday also. So, and then in June of that year, the army took him away because he had to deploy to go keep peace in some country that didn't have it. And yeah, so like I said, it's a story for another episode.

Emily (06:54)
Wow.

Kasey (07:08)
There's a lot of tentacles in that one. But I knew the day that I found out I was pregnant that I was fulfilling something that was always meant for me.

Emily (07:19)
Wow, it's beautiful.

Kasey (07:21)
How about you? When did you first know?

Emily (07:25)
I can think back in my middle school and teenage years and I always knew I wanted to be a mom. I just, I don't remember the very beginning, but I had this story in my mind where I said, okay, I'm going to go to college. I'm going to travel around the world and then I'm going to get married and then I'm going to become a mom. And that is exactly what I did. I met my, my

Kasey (07:33)
Mm -hmm.

Emily (07:53)
children's dad when I was 23. It was my first job after college and we traveled a whole bunch and then I got married at 27 or no 28. I married. Yeah. And after a couple of years, it was like, okay, it's time to, it's time to have a baby. And the minute I found out I was pregnant, there was this like, yay. And then the like immediate fear of like I've spent.

all my time preventing this. Is this for real? Like, do people actually do this? You're supposed to prevent. And then, you know, that was like this five minute window of like shock. And very similarly that she was exactly the one that I needed. And so once she was born, I called her my sidekick because she went everywhere with me. Like she was like, it was like,

Kasey (08:26)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Emily (08:47)
Emily and the baby, Emily and her, you know, it was just the two of us that we, we did it all together. And so it felt very natural. And I, I mean, of course there were a lot of really hard things. Like I remember her crying a lot in the middle of the night and being up and being so sleep deprived and having a hard time then. But I never struggled with fitting her into my life. It was like, she just was supposed to be there and.

Kasey (08:50)
Mm -hmm.

Emily (09:16)
you know, go to all the places I went to and do the things with me. And so it was, it was a very cool experience.

Kasey (09:25)
Yeah, like a part of you that was always meant to live on the outside of you. Yeah, yeah.

Emily (09:27)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I've heard you say this and I think I heard you say this years ago and I probably have copied it over the years and made it my own, but that our children are just our hearts walking around on the outside of our body. And so that's why you're like, oh, but my child is over there. And so it is true. It's true for both of my kids.

Kasey (09:43)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And of course, it's true about us that you, your relationship with motherhood was born out of you having a carefully crafted plan. And mine was, you know, me living in the moment and allowing the universe to drop in wherever it needs to and for me to learn life's next lesson through whatever it's sending, right? That

Emily (10:03)
Yes.

Exactly.

Kasey (10:17)
both of those sound so like in line with who I know you and me to be. Yeah. Yeah. And I do, I do remember and love that quote. I used to put that on baby shower invitations that I was throwing for a lot of mutual friends we had when we used to work together. That becoming a mother is like having your heart go walking around outside your body. And boy, no truer words have ever been spoken. Now that my kids are.

Emily (10:21)
Yeah, isn't that funny? The way we do things.

Yeah.

Kasey (10:45)
While my son, this boy we're talking about is going to be 30 this year, and then my daughter who will be 25 in a couple of months, looking back retroactively, what I can tell you is it seems like from the moment you discover you're pregnant through the next, you know, probably forever, but we'll say 18 years, it's like life's lesson and learning to let go. Is it not? Because as soon as you deliver that baby,

Emily (10:49)
Yeah.

It sure is.

Kasey (11:15)
you no longer have the control over how it breathes, how it eats, when it needs to make noise. Yeah, right? All the way up to releasing them on their first day of kindergarten, to giving them the keys to the car, to moving them out of the house. I mean, it's all letting go.

Emily (11:17)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

It is a really interesting thing because the children teach you that you have no control. And if you think you can control everything, then you're gonna get some big lessons. One of the things for me about not having control is when I went through the divorce with my kid's dad, when we separated, they were one and four. And so they were tiny and I had them full time for a while.

Kasey (11:59)
time.

Emily (12:02)
And then once we were going through the divorce proceedings, he wanted 50 -50 and I was desperate to not have them away from me. I remember that is one of my most painful memories was having to say, I have to let my kids go. And I, for a year, every single time they left to go be with him, I sobbed.

I mean, I really, it was like my heart is out there and I didn't know who I was without them, how quickly I had gone from being just me to being me with them. And it was a really, really hard experience.

Kasey (12:46)
Yeah.

Letting go is a really hard thing to do, and especially of the ones that we love most preciously. Our hearts, walking around outside our bodies, giving them to someone else for 50 % of your time is a huge and painful adjustment.

Emily (12:52)
It is.

Yeah.

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

It really is. And it's not like I was afraid for their safety or, you know, I mean, of course there were all the things that can come with a divorce where we didn't get along, but I wasn't afraid. I just didn't want to be away from them. And I felt like they needed me.

Kasey (13:22)
Yeah.

Of course they did and do. You're their mom. They've been inside your body. They felt your heartbeat. They will always need you. Yeah. I want to ask you a question to take us back, but before I do, my heart is feeling called to acknowledge, you know, that for you and me, we both sort of got to choose the easy route.

Emily (13:25)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Kasey (13:53)
for embarking on our relationship into motherhood and what a privilege that is. And that there are so many women out there for whom it's not like it was for us. Do you want to take a moment to just talk about them? I feel we should.

Emily (14:12)
Yeah, yes, thank you. before we hit record, Casey and I were reflecting on all of the different stories of motherhood in the various forms. So biological moms, adoptive moms, foster moms, step moms, moms who have a strained relationship with their children, children who have strained relationships, the moms who are longing, the women who are longing to be moms.

The women who are longing to be a mom and are unable or going through IVF. The women who have lost children or have had miscarriages or have had pregnancies that they had to terminate because of a variety of reasons. The two mom homes, the women who never had a mother, the women who lost the mom, the pain that goes along with that.

The women who decided or made a choice to not be a mom. I think that's really important because we often forget about them, but it's so important to just honor that there's the choice. They're the women who choose and good for them. The women who are single moms and.

Just anyone who has been maternal, anyone who because of them, there are people walking around the world that are better off. Is there anything I forgot? Anyone I forgot?

Kasey (15:35)
Yeah. No, I hope not. And if there's someone listening who feels forgotten, well, we include you too.

Emily (15:44)
Yes.

Kasey (15:45)
thank you for that. So with that in mind, I think it's so important because women suffer about motherhood. And that needs to be said. No matter which side of it you fall on and how it chooses to get to you or not get to you, I would say the greatest pains.

Emily (15:47)
That's.

Yes.

Kasey (16:13)
and the greatest joys of my life have come down the path of motherhood.

And I have a feeling I'm not alone in that feeling. And so we want you all to know you're not alone, no matter what your motherhood status is. We're all in this together. And Emily and I are on a mission for all of us as women to help lift each other and hold each other up. What the world doesn't need is any more diminishment or breaking down of others who are just like you and just like us.

Emily (16:20)
No.

Kasey (16:48)
So with that in mind, what was it like for you to be pregnant?

Emily (16:50)
Huh.

Hmm. Well, I had two very different experiences with pregnancy. When I was pregnant with my daughter, my first child, I loved being pregnant. I felt I mean, of course, like there were, you know, I had the times where I felt nauseous in the first trimester, but I loved it. I felt so centered and grounded and like.

Kasey (17:00)
Yeah.

Emily (17:20)
Yes, this is where I'm supposed to be. And I said during that pregnancy, I would be a surrogate. I would totally, oh, there's another one, the surrogates in the second pregnancy was a whole different story. And I think, you know, it was a different kind of pregnancy. I was, I didn't feel as good. I struggled more.

Emotionally, that's when my marriage was completely crumbling and I found out that there was a lot of deception in my marriage and I was in a lot of emotional pain, which I think contributed to having a much harder pregnancy. So, you know, of course there's a part of me that carries around all the guilt for what my son had to experience as he was developing in the womb. You know, kids, we don't develop.

and start to understand what's going on from the day that we're born and start breathing, babies start to learn and become their emotional beings in the womb. And so I wish it had been different for him and yet he's such a sweet human being. And I think part of it is because of that. Yeah.

Kasey (18:22)
Yeah.

Of course it is. I had a therapist friend years ago who once said to me, what was your first thought or the first thing you said out loud the moment you found out you were pregnant? Was it like, oh, wow, or like, oh, shit? Because that is the moment that you start shaping your child's self -esteem. So I say that to you to say, yes, of course that sweet, tender little boy of yours who is like a ray of light.

Emily (18:44)
Yeah.

Kasey (18:58)
was affected by how you were feeling and what you were experiencing during his pregnancy and you gave him a story. We all have to start life with a story.

Emily (19:08)
Yeah.

It's a story he doesn't know fully yet, but no.

Kasey (19:15)
he's not meant to yet he has to wait until he gets to our age right and gets into therapy.

Emily (19:19)
I know I need a therapy fund for my children.

Kasey (19:24)
Exactly. Exactly. Let me just promote that all adults should have a therapy fund in addition to a college fund for their children because we all come into life with a story. And that becomes our life, learning how to follow that path and learn our lessons along the way. Right? Yeah. So set yourself free from the guilt.

Emily (19:31)
Yes.

We do.

Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. What about your second pregnancy? Tell me about that.

Kasey (19:52)
Oh wow, well, I had my daughter with great intention. I am a youngest child. I have two older siblings and I absolutely do not want to know ever what the world is like without my siblings.

And so I wanted that for my son. I wanted to give him a sibling. And of course, I spoke a minute ago about how the marriage with his biological father didn't last. And so there was some space in between. But when he was about 15 months old, I met my daughter's father.

And shortly after we got married, and I made it known to people that I was going to be ready to be pregnant pretty right away because our son at that time was three and a half -ish, and so he was four and a half by the time our daughter came along. But again, I decided I wanted to be pregnant, and pregnancy is what happened pretty right away. And so I'm very blessed in that way.

Emily (20:55)
Mm -hmm.

Kasey (21:00)
And she was a very different kind of pregnancy than he was. I mean, I was physically healthier with her than I was with him. With him, I developed preeclampsia. And again, I'm 21 years old. So I didn't know what that really meant or the severity of it or to take it very seriously. But in my fifth month of pregnancy, they put me on bed rest because my blood pressure was so high.

that I later learned they were scared I could have a stroke. And bed rest was taken somewhat seriously, minus every other day I'd go walk them all with my mom and we'd go out for pizza after, which wasn't probably doctor recommended at all. I remember in his infancy, he was like three or four months old and I had gotten up one night in the middle of the night with him to feed him.

And what I used to do when that was happening at two or three or four o 'clock in the morning is turn the TV on. So I was watching an episode, a rerun of that old medical show ER. Do you remember that show? Well, I obviously have an addiction to medical television, right? And so it was three in the morning. I'm watching ER and a woman comes into the emergency room with preeclampsia and they end up delivering the baby by C -section and then she dies.

Emily (22:05)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kasey (22:23)
And that's when it hit me. I'm sitting in the middle of the night all by myself nursing my baby, crying my eyes out as I'm watching this on TV because it occurs to me finally, I could have died because of this pregnancy induced illness that I had. But.

Emily (22:39)
Yeah.

Kasey (22:42)
I say all of that only contextually because how I remember feeling is like that whole pregnancy was easy and I loved being pregnant with him. I loved feeling him move around inside my body. Giving birth even was easy. We were start to finish six and a half hours and it was my first child.

Um, it was like he came, it was almost like he was taking a water slide in and he just came flying in like, hello world. Here I am. And he's been entering rooms like that ever since. Let me tell you. Um, but the reason my mind goes back to him, because you asked me about my second pregnancy is with her. I stayed very healthy. I didn't have to go on bed rest. I didn't have the high blood pressure again. Um, but she was much harder to deliver.

Emily (23:08)
Hello!

Kasey (23:34)
than he was, and she was my second child. Now, I believe that's because she's a huge introvert. And for those who are gonna ultimately follow our conversations about the Enneagram, she's a four on the Enneagram. And this just means that she has this very internal heart -centered world where she feels everything very deeply. She's an artist. But so with her delivery,

I remember it felt like it was time for her to come, but the doctors had just checked me and said, no, it's going to be a few more hours because you're only dilated to four, I think it was. So my doctor was going to leave the hospital to go back to his office to see patients. And about 15 minutes after he walked out the door, I was like, she's coming. I don't know if you all know, but like it's happening now. And it was. And so they made me breathe and not push because he had left the, the,

hospital until he came back. And I swear to God, it felt like she was in my birth canal with her arms and legs stretched out like I'm not going. I don't want to go. It's loud and noisy and yucky out there. I like it in here in the quiet and then the water. Thank you very much. Because she was a lot harder to deliver. But the fun story with her when she did finally come out happy, healthy. Thank God.

Emily (24:41)
Uh -uh, I'm not doing this.

Yeah.

Kasey (25:02)
was we had been expecting a boy. We had asked to know the gender of the child before she was delivered because we wanted to know. And the doctor had told us he was 99 % sure he saw testicles. The way he put it was, there's two little jujubes. And so we thought we were having a boy. We put it's a boy on the baby shower invitations. We decorated the nursery all in blue and out comes my bouncing baby girl.

And I will never forget the look on my husband's face when he looked down into my eyes and went, it's a girl. Almost as if like, is this still my wife in the bed or did I wander into the wrong room? Because I was certain I was having fun today. So that was our big surprise when she was born a girl. And we had to come up with a name because we had only chosen boy names.

Emily (25:45)
Yeah.

What would her name have been had she been a boy? Do you remember? Zachary. Yeah. It's cute.

Kasey (26:01)
Zachary. Zachary. Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Which I'm really glad she was a girl. I'm really glad that it turned out how it turned out. I got to have one of each and they're both precious and I now get to understand how I remember saying to my mom shortly after my son was born because I was living with my parents and my husband at the time had gone off on TDY with the Army.

Emily (26:10)
I know.

Kasey (26:29)
He had this little baby tanning box because he had high bilirubin. And so I wasn't able to hold him. But I sat across from him in a rocking chair and just stared at him all day long, longing to hold him in my arms. But he had to be under the lights to help his bilirubin come down. And my mom was in the kitchen preparing food. And I remember saying, Mom, I never understood that you loved us this much.

me and my brother and my sister. And how were you able to have this much love for more than one of us? Because I've never felt anything like this before. And she said, I don't know, honey. It just comes from somewhere. But when it comes to love, there's just always somehow more than enough, and especially for your children. And gosh, isn't that the truth? So.

Emily (27:20)
Yeah, I remember wondering if I, because I loved her so much that when I got pregnant with my second, I thought, is it possible? Can I love another child in the way that they need to be loved? And someone said, it's not that you have to split up your heart to love the children, your heart grows, which someone else then later said, that's actually a medical problem if your heart has grown. But it is, in metaphor, I love that because it is,

Kasey (27:32)
this much.

Yeah. I figured it is.

Emily (27:48)
exactly how it felt like all of a sudden it was just like I had plenty of love to go around.

Kasey (27:55)
Yeah, there's more than enough. Love is in abundance. How about your second time, your second pregnancy, how was it different from the first?

Emily (27:57)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Oh, I mean, I was nauseous for a long time and just, you know, you have a toddler. So I was tired and working still and trying to keep up with everything. And the interesting thing was once he was born, my husband at the time, their dad, he had one foot out of the door and he was also working nights at his job. And so,

The combination made for me being alone a lot. And when I brought him home from the hospital, the thing that I felt was the hardest to figure out is when I would put her to bed at night, we would lay on her bed and I would read her a book and we would cuddle and then I'd say, I love you, good night. And I would get up and I would leave, but I no longer knew how to do that.

and also take care of him and like, you know, all the bedtime routine. And I remember feeling so overwhelmed and thank God women in my life showed up. I had friends who would come over and family members who would just show up and say like, okay, let me hold him and you go put her to bed or let me read her the book and you're with him, nursing him, and then come in and say good night to her. And this happened for a while where women in my life would just show up and help me. And

Kasey (29:27)
Yeah.

Emily (29:32)
I don't know what I would have done without them.

Kasey (29:35)
Yeah, it really does take a village. And it really does take other women who understand what you're going through and what you're experiencing. That hearkens me back to another story where after I had separated from my son's father, I was sharing a duplex home with my sister. And I was working, you know, single mom and working full time and going to school full time and raising my baby.

Emily (29:37)
Yeah, it sure does.

Kasey (30:04)
And it was one night in the middle of the night, like two o 'clock in the morning, and my son was fussy and just couldn't settle. And I'm bouncing him and swaying him and singing to him and trying to calm him down. And eventually I get to the point because I had to be up at like four o 'clock in the morning to go start my day, start my shift. And I'm like, please go to sleep, please go to sleep, please go to sleep.

And my sister heard me from upstairs through the air vent and like a guardian angel came down and into the bedroom and said, let me take a turn and took him upstairs and rocked him so that I could go to sleep for the last two hours of my night. It's it's moments like that where we need help.

Emily (30:44)
Wow.

Yes.

Kasey (30:50)
And thank God, again, for you and me having the privilege that the help was there and that we had people around us who loved us and got it and were willing to give it away for free. It makes all the difference. Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Emily (31:00)
Yeah, yeah, it's true. It really is something that you can't take for granted because so few people have a support system. I mean, here in Colorado even, it's the, you have the people who moved here and met someone and they have no family here. there's no village. You're on your own.

Kasey (31:24)
Yeah, yeah, how to raise a baby without a village. That could be a whole other episode. You also remind me of... I don't either, but we're not here for the answers, right? Just the conversations, but maybe someone out there does. Yeah.

Emily (31:28)
Right, right. I don't know if I have answers to that. No, just to explore it.

Kasey (31:40)
You also remind me of something a neighbor of mine said one time, and it was probably shortly after we brought our daughter home from the hospital. My neighbor had three kids and she very empathetically in the driveway one day told me having two is a lot like having 10, is it not? And I said, yeah, because just like you, when you have your first, it's like you have your little buddy.

your little companion that you take with you everywhere you need to go, right? And it's easy because you can just kind of carry their little bassinet in and out of all the places and experience life together. And then you have a second one. And it's like, how do I give any attention to the first one when the second one isn't demanding all of my attention? And are we going to divide and conquer or is this going to be like a zone defense? Like, how is this supposed to work? Yeah.

Emily (32:05)
Yes!

Right.

Yeah.

Kasey (32:30)
We, my husband and I had always decided there shouldn't be more children than there are parents. So that we can forge a man on man defense. That's how we stopped it too. How did you know that two was going to be, make you complete?

Emily (32:36)
Yeah, I think that's fair. Oh. Yeah.

I originally thought I might want three children. But then it was a combination of once I had the two. This is a kind of funny thing people do say is they'll go, what are you having? And you say, I'm having a boy and they'll go, oh, what's your older? And you say, girl, it's like a really funny thing that people go, oh, good, now you have both. And it makes me sad for people who, you know, like,

Kasey (33:13)
Oh.

Emily (33:17)
They, to get a comment like, oh, are you gonna get a girl? Are you gonna get a boy? Like if you only have girls or you only have boys. So that was, it was that kind of comment, but that wasn't what influenced me. I thought, okay, two is, two is enough. And then also it was life circumstances that my marriage was over and there was not going to be another baby. However, when I met my husband who I'm married to now, he,

Kasey (33:23)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Emily (33:44)
hadn't wanted children. He thought he was going to be without children forever. And when we met and he told me that I was like, yeah, well, I come with kids. So we're probably not going to get very serious. But he, when he met my kids, we had been dating like seven months and I didn't tell the kids who he was. And we met him, we ran into him at a park and we had a plan. We ran into him and immediately my son grabbed his hand and was like, look at this.

Kasey (33:55)
Yeah.

Hahaha!

Emily (34:13)
and like took him and he said afterwards, when I met you, I felt like, okay, I could tolerate kids for her. And then once I met the kids, they made you even better. And so after that, when he, you know, he started reflecting on that, he had a moment of thinking, do I want, do I want a biological child? And we were getting married and in, you know, during the time we were engaged, we would have these conversations. And I was like,

I'm kind of like done, but if you want to have a child, I will happily be on board. And so we talked about it and talked about it. And then eventually we were like, well, you know what? We have kids half of the time and the other half we can go on dates and we can travel and we can, you know, if we need to stay late at work, we can do it. And so we ended up deciding that the life, the way it was, was perfect. And that we also were...

offense defense, so one to one. And so it was like a great setup.

Kasey (35:14)
Yeah. Yeah, you get the best of all worlds. You get to really nurture and take great care of your marriage relationship and nurture and take great care of the kid relationship. I love that. Oh.

Emily (35:18)
Yeah.

Yeah, so then we're always excited when they're coming home.

Kasey (35:30)
Yeah, yeah, it's nice that they have an every other weekend place to go now, right? Listen to how perspective shifts over time as life unfolds.

Emily (35:34)
Right, exactly, exactly. Yeah, I went from sobbing every night to being like, okay, this is okay. Yeah.

Kasey (35:43)
Exactly. Yeah. Well, you open up another doorway of dialogue that I find fascinating in my story of motherhood because I too, in between relationships, found myself dating with a little boy in tow back when I was dating my husband. And boy, was that conversation awkward. I remember it was like our second or third date and we had gone to dinner and cocktails and then a movie.

And we came back to the duplex I was sharing with my sister and I wanted to invite him in. And I knew my son was in at home with my sister. And so here we are, I think 25 years old. And I'm with this guy who I'm really interested in and really attracted to. And we're sitting in his really cool car that he takes really great care of out in front of my house after we've had this really great date.

And what I really want is for him to kiss me. And I feel like in order for that to happen, I have to get him out of the car and into the house, or at least get me to the front step, right? But before any of that can happen, I have to have the conversation. Because now it's not just about me. And so I turn towards him and I say, this is really awkward to have to discuss with someone on a date. And I need you to know.

Emily (36:43)
Yeah.

Kasey (37:11)
I have this little boy. He's 15 months old inside. And if what you and I are doing here is casual, maybe I'm cool with that. But then you're not going to meet my son. I'm only going to be introducing him to people who are permanent fixtures in his life. And it's not that I need you to decide right now that you're a permanent fixture. But I need to know that you have intentions that it might head that way.

or else I'm not going to invite you in because I have to protect him. And so basically it was like, you know, I was the old Texas dad with my shotgun. Like, what are your intentions, sir? With my dollar bill. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. But anyway, I loved how he responded because he stayed quiet, which is what he I now know always does. But he turned off the car and said, let's walk to the door.

Emily (37:42)
Ugh.

You could channel that part of you. Like, what are your intentions with my daughter?

Kasey (38:08)
which was like his way of responding. And then we were married for 25 years. So yeah, he was definitely devoted and much like your story, it was either that weekend or a later weekend, we hosted a Sunday family barbecue with my parents and it was time for my family to meet this person. And my son just climbed all over him. Like he was a monkey at the jungle gym. He just really loved being in the space of that dad energy.

Emily (38:12)
Wow. Wow.

Like, oh you're here! I've been waiting for you! Yeah...

Kasey (38:38)
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. There was a love at first sight, too, and that hasn't ended either. But I just want to give a shout out to the single moms out there that dating and being a mom at the same time is a hard thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Emily (38:45)
Yeah.

It's so tricky. Yeah. Because there's this, you know, the conversation that you had with him about like, you know, this is where I am. This is my reality. That's not going to change. There's kind of the, you don't want to introduce anyone too soon. And you also don't want to wait too long because you don't want to build a relationship with someone where the norm is not with children. And so finding that place where you're like, at what point,

Kasey (39:14)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Emily (39:25)
Do I invite you into my life?

Kasey (39:28)
Yeah, or do I? Do you belong in our life?

Emily (39:29)
Yeah. Or is that the sign? Yeah, exactly.

Well, just because your child is an adult, they're still your child. You are still making decisions with them in mind.

Right? You're never done being my child. I say that to my son all the time I go because he's so cuddly and sweet that and I'll say, you're my baby. And it doesn't matter how old or how big you are, you're always going to be my baby. And he, when he was smaller, you know, before he really got it, when he was like five or six, he would go, oh, I'm not a baby though. And I would go, but you're my baby. I know you're not a baby, you're my baby.

Kasey (40:12)
now today, how has motherhood changed you?

Emily (40:16)
It's an interesting question because we don't know who we would be or how we would be if anything in our life had gone differently.

Kasey (40:26)
Great.

Emily (40:27)
And at the same time, so much about how I see myself in the world is related to what you were just saying, like all the decisions you make involve your kids.

And so much of my growth has come out of the meaning I've had from wanting to make sure that they live the best life that they can. It's sort of the force behind.

Kasey (40:53)
Yeah.

Emily (40:57)
how I improve myself, the decisions I make in the world, the way that I care for other people, you know, it's, they're a part of all of it. And so it's such a huge part of my identity. And like I was saying early in this episode, when they were little and I had to suddenly split custody, I didn't know what my identity was without them.

Kasey (40:57)
everything.

Emily (41:26)
But now I think there's this combination of my identity as their mother and as a model for being a healthy human in the world because of them and my identity that's outside of that. So.

It definitely goes back to all of the things in life. They all lead us somewhere. And even when they're the things that you don't want to happen, they can turn out to be good. And so, yeah, what about for you? What about for you? Who are you today because of your kids?

Kasey (41:54)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, it's such a big question. And of course, here you are asking it back to me. Oh, you know, real quick, I just saw you use your hands when you were talking and it reminds me I just ordered my whoop. My whoop is on the way. Me too. I'll have to I'll have to let you know how it goes and what I learn about after I've worn it for a week or so.

Emily (42:02)
Mm -hmm.

Yay! Good! I'm so excited for you to get one! Yeah.

Yeah, once you get all of this like baseline data about yourself, it's going to be really cool. You'll have to share it with me. And also our listeners can get $50 off of their own whoop. Whoop is a really cool wristband that helps to track all of, all of your different health related things that are going on, respiratory rate and sleep and strain and your lung capacity. That's not the word on it, but.

Kasey (42:31)
I will definitely.

Emily (42:52)
all the cool things. So if you are interested, you can get your own discount $50 off at join .whoop .com forward slash solstead.

Kasey (43:04)
I love everything you just said in your response to how motherhood has changed you and I believe my answer is similar. There's something reminiscent for me. I used to have this poster on a wall in my bedroom when my kids were growing up that said the title of it was how to really love a child and one of the lines on the poster said when you find them hard to love, love yourself more.

Emily (43:32)
Wow, isn't that true? Yeah.

Kasey (43:33)
Yeah, and it chokes me up, right? Yeah. Yeah. Because I think if I'm bottom lining, that's the number one thing. I learned how to love because of my kids, because of my relationship with motherhood. And it wasn't like, oh, I'm a mom, now I know how to love. It's as you said, it's been a journey.

Emily (43:53)
Wow.

Kasey (44:02)
There was a part of me for many years that was really quite the mama bear. Protective, out loud, in a very advocate way for my children that I now, having healed some of my early childhood trauma, can recognize as an overcorrection. That I was protecting something in them that very much wanted to be protected in me.

And some of those moments, I'm still working to hold myself with grace and compassion around some of it, because as I look back, some of it's quite embarrassing. I had a neighbor one time that called my daughter fat in the cul -de -sac when she was like four years old. And I went to her doorstep and pounded on her door.

and let her know in no uncertain terms how not okay with me that was and the harm that she may have caused. And I really let her have it in a way that was, you know, well intended and unnecessary. And there's a whole handful of things like that that we could talk about.

Emily (45:12)
I bet you don't regret making your voice heard as an advocate for your child. And maybe, you know, we don't always say things and do things in the way that we intend, but you needed to go stand up for her. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right.

Kasey (45:16)
Not at all.

Sure. Sure. And my delivery could have been more effective had I known then what I know now. And we could do a whole other episode on the times that the protector has come out on me on behalf of my children and sometimes to a great outcome. And I feel like...

Emily (45:39)
Me too.

Mm -hmm.

Kasey (45:51)
Well, in fact, I said this to someone recently. I loved my children in all of the ways that I so badly have needed love. And they turned into the most beautiful, incredible human beings I know. There are no two people I would rather spend my time with.

There are no two people I would rather have a conversation with. They expand my mind and open my heart every single day. And I am in awe of them. And truly, it's like those words on the poster. It's from loving my children that I've grown to love myself

Emily (46:32)
I'm going to ask you our final question then. And it goes with our 66 day gratitude challenge. What are you grateful for?

Kasey (46:41)
Yeah, well, the obvious answer here today would have to be my children, right? But I think I want to say it a little differently. I think what I am most grateful for is that God chose me to be the vessel for these two particular souls, to get them onto the planet, and that I get to be their mom. Yeah. What are you grateful for?

Emily (47:05)
That's beautiful.

Why do I have to go after you? You say it so beautifully and eloquently. I'm grateful. I think that our conversation today has made me feel so excited to go get my kids this afternoon from school and be able to spend time with them. And I'm grateful for the unique way that they show up in the world and all of the lessons that they give me. And...

Kasey (47:13)
Hahaha.

Emily (47:39)
that they allow me to be along for all of this with them.

Kasey (47:44)
Yeah, I love that. Wonderful. We just want to end today with one final message to all of the women out there. If any human being breathes, dreams, and thrives because you are alive, happy Mother's Day.

Emily (47:46)
Yeah.

Happy Mother's Day.