SoulStirred: Stories of Growth And The Human Experience

Emily Garcia (00:00)
Welcome lovely listeners to SoulStirred, stories of growth and the human experience. I'm Emily Garcia. And I'm Kasey Clark. We will be your guides on this journey. We are so glad you are here. Each week we'll come together, sometimes with other incredible thinkers, creators, and adventurers to generously share stories of self-discovery, recovery, triumph, and what it means to live a life on purpose. No matter where you are in your own journey.

connection is here for you at SoulStirred. Settle in, take a deep breath in, and let's inspire each other. Welcome to SoulStirred

Emily (00:40)
Welcome back, SoulStirred listeners. Today we are here with Marie Jensen. Marie comes to us from Whitby Island in Washington state where she and her hubby retired two years ago. Marie is a native of Georgia, but she has been gone from there longer than she lived there. She grew up outside of Atlanta. Her career took her to Washington DC, then to Denver, Colorado, and to Washington state.

She switched her criminal justice career to a communications career, working over 30 years as a communications manager for cities. She is currently a communications consultant for a small city, so that makes her semi-retired. What makes Marie a great communicator is her care for relationships. She makes and keeps friends, including professional peers. She's loyal, but never to a fault. She considers herself an ambadassader.

in personal and professional lives. I love that title. She reached out to SoulStirred immediately following our first episode and suggested we talk about the trauma that comes along with caring for an aging, ailing, and in Marie's case, a dying parent. Marie's mother passed away just two months ago from metastatic melanoma. On many occasions over the last 10 years, Marie and her three siblings rallied around their mom.

marie (01:39)
Yeah.

Emily (02:03)
They came together in October for an early Thanksgiving and returned in December, later when the cancer diagnosis was known, and again, the next month to say their goodbyes. Welcome Marie, we're so happy to have you here today.

marie (02:20)
Thank you so much, Emily and Casey. I am really glad to be here. My soul is definitely stirred to do this.

Kasey (02:28)
Excellent. We're so glad to have you. And what our audience may not know is Marie is one of our very first listeners who connected with an episode and then raised her hand to come on the show and tell her story as it relates to our story and all of the human experience stories that we're sharing here at SoulStirred So we're super extra excited to have you here today. Marie, tell us about what in you connected with what we're up to here at SoulStirred.

marie (02:50)
Thank you.

Your first episode spoke to me because of your sexual abuse histories and how you two overcame, you faced them, you overcame them, you are amazing women in your careers, mothers, daughters, sisters. I too have a sexual abuse background and it was refreshing to hear the vibrancy in y'all's voices about dealing with it, not letting it.

take you down because it could have. And so that was kind of my first connection. Like, I'm that person too. I overcame it. A lot of help, a lot of years. You know, and so that connected to me, to both of you instantly. Then the situation that I was in was dealing with my mom, her cancer diagnosis, the inevitable that was coming. And it just struck me.

This is trauma that I'm dealing with, that I'm accumulating, that I see my siblings dealing with, and my friends dealing with the care that they're having to give to an ill parent, an old parent, and in my case, what became a dying parent. So my soul was stirred. You guys stirred it up. So that's why I reached out.

Kasey (04:19)
Yeah. Well, thank you for letting us stir your soul and for being here today and bravely sharing your truth with the rest of the world and our listening audience. We appreciate you and you're absolutely right. Just what you have said so far is a handful of traumatic things, none of which are your fault and all of which create an impact.

marie (04:23)
Ha ha.

Yeah.

Kasey (04:45)
that is your responsibility, right? To heal through, to work through, to acknowledge and validate for yourself so that you can get back to being you, the you that you were before you were harmed. So talk to us a little bit about who you are and your relationship with your mom and.

marie (04:48)
Right?

Right.

So, I'm the youngest out of five. We were raised in the Catholic world. And the abuse happened when I was young. I didn't deal with it till I was a middle-aged woman, career woman, mother. And when I shared it, not confronted, just all the evidence and the documentation I have with my parents, they absolutely did not believe me.

So I just accepted that that's never gonna change. But the course that it set for me was, I was the outsider kid from then on. I think because of the abuse, they knew about it. I know that they knew about it when it was happening because they actually sent me away to live with my barely English speaking Italian grandparents in New York City when I was four years old for six weeks. So.

former investigator, I built the case. I knew that they knew. So fast forward into my married life, my 40s, my 50s, every time I would come home and visit, I just was always the outsider. And then the past, my mom took a really horrible fall in August of 2020. My dad had passed by then. And the level of care that like...

the siblings just had to rally to give. It just became hard for me to.

give it my all sometimes because she never believed the worst thing that happened to me. But I stepped up. Yeah, I did it. I did what was needed. But the reason I reached out to you all was because this was like a new trauma camp for me. Just the level of care.

Kasey (06:32)
Hmm. Yeah.

needing to turn around and take.

marie (06:48)
her anger, the choices she made about how she was gonna handle her health, the past year of her life, all of that just brought up a lot of trauma feelings for me. My mom made it hard to love her. So yeah.

Emily (07:04)
Hmm.

Kasey (07:06)
Yeah, it sounds like it. And it also sounds like she didn't necessarily, she wasn't equipped, I'll say, to give you the love you needed during your most vulnerable time. Now here she is during her most vulnerable time. And of course, as the universe would have it, you have to be loving with her in spite of, I'm sure, a whole batch of feelings that were inside of you from when you were a kid. Yeah.

marie (07:16)
Right.

Yes.

I noticed looking back, so after her fall in 2020, she moved in with my oldest sister for six plus months and it was time that she needed to move out. So my husband and I went down there in February of 21 and basically moved her out of my sister's house, set her up in a house that my sister owned. And I know it just wasn't.

what my mom thought her life was gonna be.

but there were consequences to that fall that she took. And...

I believe alcohol was involved and it, it broke her body and it changed her trajectory for the rest of her life. And she had a lot of level of care that was required. And I came down, my pattern was to come down once a year or as needed. But the longest I stayed with her was for a month in February of 2021.

That was a shocker of a trip. I did not know the level of pain meds my mom was taking. I was not aware of the drinking that was going on. No one told me. And I remember feeling very isolated and just thinking, how am I gonna, how am I gonna manage this on top of, you never believed me about the abuse?

Kasey (09:04)
Yeah.

marie (09:05)
and just trying to stay away from the triggers.

But over the years, going back and visiting every year, I got stronger and I could manage better. And I knew I was prepared better and I didn't engage in some of the behaviors. I know I was able to do that. I worry about the trauma my siblings carry with it. But it was, like I said, my mom didn't make things easy sometimes.

Kasey (09:34)
Mm-hmm. Sounds like really not, in a really complex way. Yeah. It's remarkable that you have had it at the time, or I don't know if you've come to this awareness since then, but that you were able to see as it was happening what was happening. I see you suffering and numbing, and I also see me suffering.

marie (09:37)
Yeah.

Kasey (09:58)
based on the past and so how are we going to navigate this relationship together now given all of that is happening in between us? Say more about that if you can.

marie (10:09)
Yeah.

To say the relationship was distant and it always had been, that part had never changed. My mom, her career in education was in nursing. She wasn't a nurturing type mother, and I'll speak for myself, for me. And deep down, all the weeks and days and hours, you just, I felt myself just...

wanting her to say it and mean it. And I didn't get it.

And I should have known that I wasn't going to get it because she wasn't capable. That's who she was. So a lot of the last few months experience with all this has really taught me acceptance. And I did a lot of journal, journaling and mantras. Like I just needed to accept a lot of things.

that the diagnosis was she wasn't going to get better. Um, that she wasn't going to say she really, really loved me. Um, yeah, there was just a lot of things I just had to accept just to get through that.

Emily (11:18)
Yeah, it would be ideal if apparently your mom, if at the end of her life, she could go, you know, I was wrong and I've hurt you. And it's there's so many people in the world that just are in such denial. And it sounds like she was in such denial and a part of her knew what the truth was, which is why she was drinking so much. And so it's like.

You can deny it logically, but you know, you know what you have put your child through in your core, you know. And it sounds like for you, you know, we have these different parts of us. We have the parts that wanna protect us. All of our parts wanna protect us, but then at our core, there's your true self. And your true self led you to the place of going, I have to accept this.

What do you think helped you to see that, that you ultimately just had to go, I have to journal and mantra and do whatever I can to accept what's going on?

Kasey (12:21)
Thank you.

marie (12:23)
keep being on a 30-year counseling plan helped.

Emily (12:26)
Hahaha

Kasey (12:28)
Yeah.

marie (12:29)
I have been with the same counselor for almost 20 years. He knows me inside and out, but honestly, I think it was, I've built a pretty solid toolkit. And there were a lot of unhealthy relationships with siblings among siblings, parents and siblings, parent and parent. And I'm sure my family isn't as different as many out there.

But I think just being hell bent on not letting the sexual abuse trauma like interfere with what was probably the, you know, the most traumatic experience I've had since my divorce. Um, just a whole lot of unhealthy things happening. And I would just walk in and just say, this is not going to be me. I'm not going to do this. I'm.

Kasey (13:21)
Mm.

marie (13:24)
I am not, I'm just not going to do it. I'm not going to lose my sanity over what my mom's needs are right now. Um, so that was kind of my, my motives, my motive, stay focused that way.

Emily (13:37)
Hmm.

Kasey (13:40)
Yeah.

You said something really important a minute ago too, that I want to acknowledge for you and anybody else with a similar story that might be listening. I don't know if you've connected it up this way, but I'm about to. In order to get to acceptance with her, and then I make up that so that you could be loving and kind with her, you had to acknowledge the truth of your story for yourself. You had to believe you.

marie (13:54)
Good

Yeah.

Kasey (14:11)
and you had to let your system, your whole body know this is real and it happened to me. And even though I'm never going to get the acknowledgement and validation I need from the people I needed it from, it's my job now to give it to myself. Yeah.

marie (14:25)
Yeah, I was also motivated just to kind of reconnect and stay connected with my siblings. We weren't that close growing up and right now we live in different states. So I didn't, you know, one of my mantras was don't add to the drama. Cause my mom was...

Kasey (14:33)
Mm.

Yeah, that's a good one.

Emily (14:46)
Yeah, that's a really good one.

marie (14:49)
I think when I reached out to you, I just said it was kind of a shit show. And I don't mean any disrespect to my siblings or my mom, but that's what it felt like. If you were an outsider and just, like we're drone footage, you know, over the whole scene, you would think, wow. And to some extent, my mom was like the ringmaster. So I was also motivated by just not adding to the drama and

Kasey (14:53)
Yeah.

Emily (14:53)
Yeah.

marie (15:17)
um caring being gracious with my brothers and sisters and you know my one sister being the power of attorney she had a lot of responsibility a lot of responsibility and she was the primary caregiver for you know over 10 years after my dad died so i just never wanted to um i don't know not appreciate what she's had to go through so

And my other sister would come up from where she lives and stay with my mom for weeks at a time to give the oldest sister a break. And, um, you know, the system worked, uh, and considering, I call it the final week when we all came down there to say goodbye, it was intense. Uh, home hospice was intense. And, um, I'm just in awe of how we all managed that week together.

for not having long-term close relationships. So I'll always be in awe of that.

Kasey (16:22)
Sibling relationships are so important, especially surrounding the loss of a parent, whether that's because they're declining in life or actually dying and leaving this level of consciousness. I honestly am so grateful for my own siblings and don't know how we would have traversed those kind of hard things without each other. But tell us a little bit. Give us a taste of what the last intense week was like.

marie (16:25)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

Uh, so, uh, my mom was, went to the hospital in December because of pain. Turns out it was cancer, but they didn't know what kind. And, um, the day that she was released, my siblings went to pick her up and they weren't a block away from the hospital and a drunk driver hit him. I, I can't, I'm telling you a shit show.

Kasey (17:19)
You can't make this up.

marie (17:21)
So everybody's, you know, ambulanced back to the hospital. They get all checked out. So they get mom home. And that's when I booked my flight and just said, I'm coming. You need my help. And so I stayed from the 15th of December, like all the way through January 3rd. I just, and I stayed with mom in her house. And it was, she was, the day I,

flew out was the metastatic melanoma diagnosis. So then we had something to deal with. And I think a lot of the trauma I was feeling at the time was just the unknown. Like, what is it? What's making her have so much pain? And then you get the answer, okay, well then, what's that gonna do to her? Well, she's gotta have treatment. Well, what's that gonna do to her? Like, just so much trauma around the not knowing. So...

Um, I come back home and two days later I get the call, you know, you need to come back and say your goodbyes. So she again was in the hospital, uh, because she had lost the ability to speak. So when we, my husband and I flew back, uh, I stayed that first night in the hospital with her and, you know, nobody gets any sleep in a hospital chair or a hospital bed for that matter.

And that was on a Sunday. She was released on a Tuesday, got her set up for home hospice. And she passed Wednesday, the Wednesday night. So it was fast.

I think I said to you all earlier that.

It wasn't her death that saddens me, but boy, her suffering. Sure does.

Emily (19:03)
Mm-hmm.

marie (19:04)
And I know that her body and mind did not know what's going on the last hours, but.

It was, it was, it was bizarre and beautiful at the same time, but

but brutal.

brutal to watch it and hear it and...

Be scared shitless.

Like, is that it? Is that it? So.

Emily (19:22)
Yeah, there is something, there's something so bittersweet for lack of a better term about those moments just prior to losing someone, just prior to them passing over and then just after because you are watching, you can be watching and it sounds like you were ultimate pain. It looked so painful and like she was starting to release from it to go.

marie (19:22)
I think that's.

Yeah.

Yeah, we were.

Emily (19:50)
to be at peace.

marie (19:51)
I try to find comfort for my mom in that I know she appreciated all of us being there. And I think we were all comforted knowing we were all in it together. Yeah.

Kasey (20:04)
bizarre and beautiful and brutal.

marie (20:08)
Yeah, she was having memories. And you know, we, like, my sisters and I were like.

And then like somebody would remember, I think we said the Lord's Prayer, you know, 50 times. She wanted me to recite lyrics to a Bing Crosby song. And she joked one time with my sister. I mean, yeah. So, bizarre and beautiful.

Emily (20:36)
Yeah. Bizarre and beautiful is the exact right way to say it.

Kasey (20:39)
Yeah, what will you remember about your mom?

marie (20:42)
My mom was feisty as hell. She had a couple of, you know, momisms. One was, you don't have to like someone, you just have to be civil to them. That's pretty good advice. And you can do anything for a year. That was another. I, you know, like one of us had crappy jobs. She's like, just hang in there for a year. My mom was...

Kasey (20:51)
Hmm.

Emily (21:03)
Thank you.

Kasey (21:03)
Yeah.

marie (21:06)
was gracious to friends.

very gracious to her friends.

Emily (21:09)
It sounds like that is one of the things that you took from her because you also are gracious to your friends that you are loyal, but not to a fault. Yeah.

marie (21:18)
Right. At least that's what I tell myself.

Kasey (21:22)
Yeah, I believe it's true.

Emily (21:23)
Hehehe

marie (21:26)
Thank you.

Emily (21:27)
Yeah.

Kasey (21:28)
Gracious and fierce and it also sounds like strong, your mom. I'm lifting up strength from the guidance that's like you can do anything for a year. She was like maybe one of those women that, like us, we can do hard things. Yeah.

marie (21:32)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I think so. I try to step out sometimes and think, although I don't know a lot about my mom's upbringing, you know, her father was an alcoholic. They lived in New York city. She got, she met my dad at 15, married at 19, had the first three kids in three different States and then the last two in Georgia. Um, she had all of us by the time she was 27. Uh,

She, you know, worked a nursing career, emergency rooms. I mean, so I know it wasn't easy for her.

Kasey (22:13)
Yeah.

Wow, good for her.

Yeah, what that says to me is it conjures up compassion for her because she had to develop her identity as a mom before she was even done developing her identity as a person, you know? And it also sounds like she was not everything you needed as a child.

marie (22:35)
Yeah, good point.

Kasey (22:43)
And I know it's also true for all of us who have kids. None of us can be. Everything our children need, the moment that they need them, regardless of how loving we are and how much we love them. And I also know there's some threads that we could pull on and talk about. You mentioned at the top about being Catholic. And I know in my own story, I can relate to having been raised Catholic and the shame.

marie (22:48)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kasey (23:10)
that means we were sometimes parented with and brought up with and taught how to be good humans through. And there was, you know, just pervasive sexual abuse, as we know, when we were all young girls. So many people who have been impacted by that and then not known what to do with it or how to expose it and because of the, again, the shame.

marie (23:16)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kasey (23:35)
that our moms and our families carry. It's like don't talk about it. Keep it secret or it didn't really happen. And that can be almost as damaging as the abuse itself to be told to keep quiet and to be minimized like that. I don't, I'm curious how it was for you. I know for me that made me carry with me like oh I guess it didn't matter that much. It didn't really affect me. No one seems to care that this happened.

marie (23:39)
Right.

Right.

Yeah, well.

I don't think I was, I mean it happened to me when I was very young, four. Um, and I didn't personally acknowledge it till

Kasey (24:08)
Mm-hmm.

marie (24:12)
I think after I was married, I kind of knew, I just kind of knew. But one reason I reached out to you all is just, I'm just searching for words to put to this trauma around my mom's death, because it took me the longest time to put the word shame to the sexual abuse. And so now I'm like, okay, well, I got that word. Now what is it for this? Because

Kasey (24:28)
Mm.

Mmm.

marie (24:37)
I can say it was traumatic, it was traumatizing, but like, I'm looking for something more than that word. So I didn't say anything until I was 40. But no one said keep it quiet. No one said don't ever talk about it. I just knew not to bring it up. And I just knew that they weren't going to accept it. And that's exactly how it played out.

Kasey (24:45)
Mm-hmm.

marie (25:02)
And it just was, it just made for a very tough relationship with both my parents. So, I mean, to, yeah, yep, definitely unspoken rules. So, and I just didn't play by my parents' rules, you know, but I did exactly what they did. I, I moved away from my parents.

Emily (25:09)
there are unspoken rules within a family.

marie (25:24)
I mean, as far away as I could, they did the same thing. But I just felt like I was never forgiven for that. So, yeah.

Kasey (25:31)
Mmm.

Hmm. Yeah.

Emily (25:34)
You know, the thing that I have learned about sexual abuse is that it is a pattern and it happens in generations. And I can say in my family, my, I was abused, my mom was abused, my grandma was abused. And for my mom and my grandma, it was, it was that sort of thing, like brush it under the rug. Let's not talk about it. Just move on. And, you know, it's sort of at that point.

marie (25:42)
Mm.

Emily (26:03)
in history, it was like, you need a man in order to pay the bills. So you got to just deal with it. This is just part of life. And so when that's the pattern and families learn, like, like you were saying, it's the unspoken rule in the family. Even as a four year old, you know, I can't say anything because it's not going to be okay. And then when you're an adult and you speak up, you're breaking the pattern in the family.

And people don't want that pattern broken. They just want to go on being like, wait, we do what we do and you're okay. Just, just move along. But by breaking the pattern, that's exactly, that's literally it. You have decided I am no longer going to participate in this secret. And the secret is what creates the shame. That wasn't your shame to carry.

marie (26:32)
All right.

Right.

Yeah, but even after I shared it with them, it still was never talked about again, ever. So.

Emily (27:05)
No.

Kasey (27:06)
Yeah. And I imagine this is relative to what you're describing now as the traumatic experience of the loss of her that you're longing to name in some way. Tell us a little bit more about that, like what it's been like for you specifically around the loss. And maybe, maybe not, we can help you name it.

marie (27:15)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know, I feel like the loss is like it has layers. So the simple loss is, oh, I can't send mama St. Patrick's Day card. Like, oh, you know, I usually call her when I'm home from a trip or when I travel, I always send postcards. So like that loss is gone. You know, my...

Kasey (27:35)
Mm.

marie (27:47)
I, part of me feels like I should feel like there's more of a loss.

Kasey (27:52)
Mm.

marie (27:53)
Um, but because we weren't, we just weren't close. I.

I don't feel as much loss maybe as I think I should if that makes sense.

Kasey (28:01)
Yeah.

Well, you know, they say your feelings are your truth. And it's futile to judge them. You don't have to feel guilty for how you feel or how you don't feel. You just get to feel and let that be part of how you are.

marie (28:09)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't feel guilty about.

not feeling the loss. It's how I feel about my dad as well. Yeah. I think the hardest part for me is to, I don't know, think the positives. Think about the positives. I just don't have a lot to draw on. So I wish I did.

Kasey (28:22)
Good.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Emily (28:36)
Yeah. It's the irony of loving someone and, you know, this is your mom and that was your dad and you love them and yet the truth of how they were with you and who they were to you doesn't go away just because they died. And so it's layered. Like, yes, I loved them, but she wasn't good to me. And she didn't stand up for me and she didn't advocate for me.

marie (28:54)
Right.

Emily (29:04)
and she didn't protect me. Or whatever those things are, I'm just giving you the words that I would use. And so it's a layered thing and I don't think there's one word to describe it. There are many words.

Kasey (29:16)
Yeah.

marie (29:18)
Yeah.

Kasey (29:18)
I know it can also be true when a child of any age loses a parent. There's the feelings Emily just went through. She didn't protect me, nurture me, guide me, keep me safe, love me the way that I needed, and now she never will.

marie (29:33)
Right.

Kasey (29:33)
because now she's gone. And so there's a child inside of all of us that we grieve for. At least when you were alive, I had hope that those needs might still get met in some small way. Now that you're gone, they're going to remain unmet. Unless I learn how to meet them for myself. And admittedly, that's a harder thing.

marie (29:52)
Right.

Which...

Kasey (29:58)
Right? It's just a harder thing to give yourself the love that you needed and wanted from a parent. Yeah. And held and loved. Yeah.

marie (29:59)
Yeah.

Right. Times you just want to be taken care of.

Emily (30:11)
Are there things that you have learned as an adult? And particularly since you made that disclosure when you were 40 that have been about reparenting yourself, that you've been like, hey, what does Marie need? And what am I gonna do for her?

marie (30:26)
Ah.

I'd say that...

talking about it. I remember dating my now husband. I told him about kind of my what I carried and I told him what had happened. I said because you just you just need to know I trigger easily and damn if that guy didn't say well I respect you more than now than I ever did. And so I think

For me, it's always been about being authentic because I just grew up in a pretend world with a family that was all about the outward appearances. And I think that was the greatest growing up and visiting, going home for holiday visits and stuff. I think the friction was because I wanted to talk about the truths. I mean, just simple things.

Kasey (31:23)
Mm.

marie (31:23)
there's just so many topics you couldn't talk about because, you know, it would offend the offensive politically or religiously or I don't know, morally. It just, and so I think for me, I'm authentic in my professional job. I mean, what you get is what you get. Um, and, and personally too, I don't, I don't hide from the core of me. Um, it's

Emily (31:34)
Mm-hmm.

marie (31:52)
I hope I answered that question. Yeah.

Emily (31:54)
love that.

Kasey (31:54)
You did it great. I love it so much. And it makes me want to go raise your hand if you're that person in your family who couldn't keep the unspoken truths quiet. Like, I see you and I hear you and me too. Can we all just please talk about the thing that nobody's talking about that is so obvious to all of us that's happening in the room right now?

marie (32:04)
Right, yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, and you know, one of those things was my mom's drinking. When I went down in February of 21 and I was just shocked. So not only is she on pain meds, she's mixing it. And I was stunned and I would try to tell my sisters and they're like, yeah, we know that's what she does. That's her choice. And I'm like,

Kasey (32:25)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

marie (32:49)
You could have warned me. You could have dropped a hint. I just was stunned. So again, one of those things that could easily have been talked about. And Emily, a little bit to something that I did when I went back in December and stayed over Christmas and through New Year's. I actually texted the family members, so my siblings and their kids.

Kasey (32:53)
Mm-hmm.

marie (33:18)
just with a daily update because that was the professional communicator in me. But that was also a way of saying, mom's in good hands, you know, here's what you need to know with. I didn't give away any secrets, but, um, it was just important for me, for people to know what was, what was happening because everybody's just lives in different places. So.

Kasey (33:23)
Mm-hmm.

Emily (33:41)
Hmm. That's beautiful. I want to, I want to take a step back because when you were talking about when you met your now husband and you were dating and you were like, I'm going to show up authentically. I want you to understand I get triggered easily. And he was like, I respect you so much more because of that. I'm curious. What, what was it that led you to be honest and attract?

Kasey (33:48)
Thank you.

Emily (34:09)
someone, we attract people who we need in our lives. And oftentimes, we will attract someone who recreates the pattern we know, or somehow we know something bigger and we attract someone who's healthy. So what led you to that moment with him?

Kasey (34:26)
Thank you.

marie (34:27)
Bye.

I remember first dating him and telling friends and family, man, I met this guy, he is so certain about himself. Like he was certain, he made decisions, he just, he was, he wasn't egotistical, but he just was very certain about him as a professional and as a dad. And I think I just recognize if I'm gonna stay in this,

and work it and make it happen. He's gotta know this about me. And he needs to know like just how much counseling I get about it and that I just trigger easily. I think that was my biggest fear was he wasn't gonna know, well, God, what was that about? And a big trigger for me was betrayal, right? My parents didn't protect me.

whole lot of other levels of betrayal and I just think I put it out there like don't do it. It'll be if you betray me it'll be a deal breaker.

Kasey (35:27)
Yeah.

Yeah. And he hasn't. Good man. Yeah. I love that.

Emily (35:31)
Wow.

marie (35:32)
No, of course not.

Emily (35:35)
Yeah, it's pretty refreshing to show up in a new relationship and just put it all out on the table. Like, here it is. If you can do it, take it. And if you can't, leave it. Like, I'm better off than.

marie (35:42)
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, and we were both newly divorced and, you know, if you had a second chance, you definitely know what you don't want in the next relationship. So I think that was part of my motive, like, I'm not, like, you're gonna need to understand this about me. So.

Kasey (35:58)
Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and it speaks so beautifully also to the gift of relationship that we often get through relationships the things that we're not yet able to do or be ourselves. What I hear you saying is he came in as such a confident and authentic speaker of his own truth that it inspired you to be confident and authentic in yours too.

marie (36:12)
Yeah.

Kasey (36:32)
regardless of the content of the story. You know? Please do.

marie (36:35)
I'll correct that a little bit. I think I came in, I came in and set the standard for truth. Yeah, yeah.

Kasey (36:41)
Yeah, well, good for you. All right, you get to have all the credit. Don't let me take any of that away. What do you notice about yourself as far as being a person who triggers easily now that some of your truth has surfaced?

Emily (36:47)
Hehehehe.

marie (36:57)
Well, I know the usual triggers. And then like, this wasn't a trigger about the sexual abuse but we went to a St. Patrick's Day dinner party Saturday. And you know, my mom was Irish and I just was moody during the whole thing. And I thought, what? Like, you know, husband kept saying.

Are you all right? And I'm like, I'm just emotional. Well, the next day I'm like, well, of course you are. Cause your mom was like, you got the Irish lineage and the heritage. You always sent her St. Patrick's Day cards. Like, of course you are. So I think I know the usual suspects and I'll just say, okay, like I'm triggered right now. So give me space. Let me, let me process it. But I...

Emily (37:29)
I'm gonna go to bed.

Kasey (37:34)
Yeah.

marie (37:47)
There's also always going to be the ones that I never know were coming.

Kasey (37:50)
Yeah, well you're grieving, you know?

marie (37:54)
Yeah, so is grief the same as trauma? Is grief part of trauma? Like, what?

Kasey (38:00)
Great question. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Emily (38:03)
There's definitely overlap. And I don't think that trauma is always grief and grief is always trauma, but there's definitely this amount of overlap, like a Venn diagram, like grief and trauma, but they're here, you know, just that little bit of space. And the thing about grief is when you're rewiring your brain and everything, all of the firsts are a big deal. And so your first St. Patty's Day without your mom.

You may not realize it's going to be a big deal until you're in it. And then you're like, Oh, I'm feeling it. And it's, that's actually, it's almost like the opposite of trauma in that moment. When you acknowledge it and go, Oh, I'm feeling it. And you allow it to be released. Like I just, I need to be sad right now because allowing whatever is happening. Is the thing that prevents you from holding the trauma in your body. And actually, as I'm saying that I want to bring up something that you, that you said.

marie (38:34)
Yeah.

Emily (39:01)
You wrote this that the trauma has felt like a lump that you can't really identify in your body. So tell us more about that.

marie (39:06)
Oh yeah.

Yeah, I just feel like, I'll just look down and go, I know you're in there. And sometimes it feels it's over here or over here. Sometimes it feels like a, a coat, like, you know, it's a light sweater or it's a heavy coat. Um, and I.

That's just kinda how I know I'm alright. Something's, I gotta figure this out today. And I'm not saying I wanna get rid of it cause I don't think you ever get rid of this kind of trauma but I just don't want it to affect, you know, kind of dominate my life like the sexual abuse trauma did for so many years. I don't wanna, I don't want it to.

Emily (39:56)
Right.

marie (40:00)
I don't know, fester. Is that a word?

Emily (40:03)
Yeah, it seems like rather than it being a coat that you have to wear, maybe it's a handkerchief you put in your pocket and you can put it away and take it out when you want.

Kasey (40:03)
You don't want to lead with it.

marie (40:06)
Thanks for watching!

Yeah.

Kasey (40:09)
Yeah.

marie (40:12)
Yeah. I remember coming back from the funeral, the first probably three or four days. And let me tell you, we live in a very beautiful house my husband designed. I walked into the door, it was like 11:30 at night. I just dropped to my knees because our house is beautiful and it's loving and it's healthy. And I just did not have that for six weeks.

And I missed it. I so missed the house and the bed and all the comforts that came along with it.

Kasey (40:47)
such a beautiful testament to creating the life that you wanted and needed. And you did that for yourself, in spite of the people who were in your family of origin, not being able to give those things to you. You somewhere along the way found out what you needed and then built your life to be it. That's incredible.

marie (40:52)
Yes.

Right.

Thank you.

Kasey (41:11)
It's resilient and it's courageous and it's incredible. Yeah.

Emily (41:18)
there is something about getting to the end when you have lost someone and it comes with the whole variety of feelings that we were talking about. And it's painful and people don't wanna say this, but there can be a little bit of relief and there's all this stuff and then you come back into your own space and after having experienced the trauma that you did, walking into your home where

I'm sure you've always known, I love this home, but you have this perspective after having the opposite experience. You come home and go, I've created this. Thank you so much. Thank you, Marie, for creating this.

marie (41:51)
Right?

Kasey (41:52)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

marie (42:00)
It's very healing here.

Kasey (42:02)
Yeah.

Emily (42:02)
What a special experience. Well, as we get to the end, is there anything that we didn't ask that you wanna make sure we say or that our listeners know?

marie (42:14)
No, I just know there's so many, even friends, but people out there my age in our 60s who are caring for our elderly parents on so many levels. And I just, my wish for all of you is that you recognize, I know you know it's difficult, but that you recognize there's gonna be trauma with it. And to know the signs, to...

manage the signs to truly do some self-care. I came equipped with that. I don't know that my siblings did and so I do worry what they're carrying with them and I mean I'll do my part to reach out for them. I don't want, I didn't feel alone in this trauma experience with my mom's death.

you know, siblings and husband and son. And I just don't want people to feel alone.

Kasey (43:14)
Hmm. Well, you helped with that today. You know, there's lots of lots of people out there in the world who will relate to various parts of this story. And now today they'll feel a little bit less alone in their story because of you coming here and sharing yours. Yeah. Mission accomplished.

marie (43:18)
Thank you. I hope so.

Appreciate that. That was my hope.

Good deal.

Emily (43:40)
Well, thank you for being here today. And yeah, you have made the community and made our community a little better by sharing something that's so important and being authentic. Like you always are.

marie (43:43)
Thank you both.

No.

Kasey (43:55)
authentic and tender it feels in this space here today. I hope that they can feel that when they're listening to. Yeah, thanks Marie.

marie (43:57)
Yes.

Emily (43:57)
Yes.

Yeah. Well, SoulStirred listeners, thank you for joining us today. And if you found value in this episode and there is anything that resonated that you think someone else needs to hear, please share it. That's the best way that new people can hear the important things that we're talking about. So thank you for listening and thank you to Marie.

marie (44:26)
My pleasure, honestly.

Kasey (44:28)
And if you like Marie, connect up with something you've heard today or in on any other SoulStirred episode, write to us at SoulStirredpodcast@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you and perhaps highlight you and your story on the show. Take good care of yourselves. Bye.

Emily (44:44)
Alright everyone, bye!

Emily Garcia (44:57)
Thanks so much for joining us on this episode of SoulStirred, Stories of Growth and the Human Experience. We hope our stories have touched your heart and sparked reflections in your own journey.

Therapist, we are not your therapist and this podcast is not a substitute for therapy. If you find yourself in need of professional support, please don't hesitate to seek it. Your well-being is important and there are professionals out there who are ready to help. We encourage you to carry the spirit of growth and connection with you. Life is a continuous journey and we're honored to be part of yours. Stay tuned for more captivating stories in the episodes to come.

Until then, take care of yourselves and each other.