SoulStirred: Stories of Growth And The Human Experience

Emily Garcia (00:03)
Welcome lovely listeners to SoulStirred Stories of Growth and the Human Experience. I'm Emily Garcia. And I'm Kasey Clark. We will be your guides on this journey. We are so glad you are here. Each week, we'll come together, sometimes with other incredible thinkers, creators, and adventurers, to generously share stories of self-discovery, recovery, triumph, and what it means to live a life on purpose. No matter where you are in your own journey,

connection is here for you at SoulStirred Settle in, take a deep breath in, and let's inspire each other. Welcome to SoulStirred

Emily (00:49)
Hello listeners, welcome back to SoulStirred. Today we are here with Sarah Kate. Sarah Kate helps adults transform their suffering so that they can live meaningful, authentic and empowered lives. Her practice is called Mindful Connection Counseling and she works with adults in both Florida and Colorado. She is committed to transforming the lives of adults who have experienced childhood and religious trauma so that they can live meaningful, authentic and empowered lives.

They achieve this through excellent therapeutic services that honor each person's identities, history, and their authentic self.

Kasey (01:29)
Thank you, Sarah Kate, for being with us today. I'm so excited to have you. I adore what I just heard as the mission and vision and values and intention behind your practice and the work that you've chosen to devote yourself to for a living. You are a gift that we want to share with our SoulStirred audience, especially this month in February when we are promoting the celebration of love.

and all of the shapes and forms that it comes in. Thank you so much for being with us today.

SK (02:03)
Thank you so much for having me. I've been really looking forward to this. And when you told me about it being the love month, just getting to feel so excited for that because there's I just feel like I've experienced love in so many forms and have so much to connect with love on especially as a trauma therapist, just seeing love show up.

So it's a real privilege to be on today. Thank you.

Kasey (02:36)
Thank you.

Emily (02:37)
Yeah. Sarah Kate, do you wanna start by telling us a little bit about your story? And specifically what I'm thinking about is you have told me about a really interesting childhood that led you into the work as a therapist and the work that you get to do with people from your own experience.

SK (02:58)
I grew up in a very religious environment and it's so interesting because, you know, I wouldn't have thought anything of it growing up, right, it was just what normal was for me of being in an environment that very much revolved around evangelical Christianity. It was my particular area that I was raised in.

control religion. There's aspects of it that still resonate with kind of what I was taught about love being unconditional, but then the environment didn't reflect that in the ways that I was raised with a lot of gender roles being taught very as a

woman being kind of told you have to be this way, you're the helper, you're the servant, kind of those messages.

And yeah, there's so much more we could go into with this, but being raised in that environment, and then when I was becoming an adult, I had a few experiences that made me start questioning that. And so I went from the space of everything in my life revolves around this, and my worthiness

didn't even begin to look at my sexuality because I was taught it had to be straight, it had to be this way, otherwise you're sinning, right? So I had these really extreme messages that didn't line up with this experience of I know what love feels like, I know what like that experience of being belong and connecting and then that really started unraveling. So

in my early adulthood as that's unraveling, I'm also pursuing this profession in counseling. And it hadn't unraveled when I started pursuing it. I was still kind of in that head space, but from kind of experiencing love outside of the box I was raised in and experiencing it with people and connections that had totally different beliefs

that I did, it made me start to really question, do I believe this anymore? And that, again, just so much unraveling from there that then led me to where I'm at now with having very open spirituality, and we'll go into it, but I'm polyamorous as well. And...

Yes, there's so much we could talk about, but my work in helping people who have left religion and experiencing that sense of like, loss and lack of belonging, and questioning who am I without this, like my whole identity revolved around growing up evangelical. I was there, you know, multiple days a week, it was it was everything. And so all that to say.

My work now is such a privilege because it means supporting people who went through the same level of grief and loss and loss of identity that I went through to find, okay, who am I and like, what is love and life and really it like makes you question everything. It's not just

one relationship, right? It's your whole way of viewing the world changes to come out of a high control religion.

Kasey (06:58)
Yeah. To call those questions big is an understatement, right? Who am I and what does this mean? How I've been raised, how I've been taught, the threads of the quilt that are my culture don't seem to fit with all of the parts that feel like my truth.

SK (07:05)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Kasey (07:19)
Where does a person turn when that conflict surfaces? I mean, it's huge. so take us through a little bit, some of what you mean when you say, and then everything unraveled, and how you started to come to making those parts fit together.

SK (07:37)
Yeah, so one of my big unravelings was not only was I experiencing so much love and connection with people who didn't believe the same things, who weren't evangelical, in my early 20s, kind of being like, oh, these are part of what I was conditioned into was this mindset of fearing the other, right? People are going to lead you astray. People are going to make you

right, lose your faith, lose your worthiness from God. And so this fear of the outsider, which now I understand is rooted in a lot of patriarchy and white supremacy and colonialism, right? But being, you know, being conditioned into that, then meant I grew up very guarded from people who were different.

And so then I'm starting to connect with people who, like I said, have different beliefs. As at this time in my life, I've also was very young and got married to my still partner. And it was him that actually, he grew up just as indoctrinated as I was, a different kind of sect, but still we were both very.

fundamentalist and extreme. And he started questioning. And my experience of him staying a loving partner, not leaving me, not cheating on me, not doing all these things that in my conditioning I was taught these bad things will happen if somebody is no longer a Christian, right? And so...

Kasey (09:23)
Mm.

SK (09:25)
For him to change, that really brought up a lot of questions for me having that so close to me, where as a person that I have immense love for, do I believe God would send him to eternal damnation? And if I could understand that he didn't believe those things now for a good reason, if God really is love...

then couldn't God understand that too. And that was my thinking kind of as I started the unraveling, I wouldn't language it that way nowadays, but that was my thinking back then. And that really, again, was part of, if I just had this connection to what is love, and that just didn't line up for me.

Kasey (10:20)
room.

SK (10:21)
And that was really such a big part of me moving away from this mindset of you have to follow this religion to be lovable, to be worthy. And so for me to experience him and want the best for him, I had to start thinking that there's a lot of things here that don't line up, right? And from there, I began

Kasey (10:32)
Hmm

SK (10:49)
having the, it was scary, but I began having the kind of questions start, essentially like start to explore them a bit more. And I started going to therapy myself at that point. And it was really with a therapist who didn't try to change me indoctrinate me and she wasn't afraid of my questions that really helped me.

Kasey (11:02)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm

SK (11:16)
not feel so afraid of my questions. And I started reading books and listening to podcasts and doing all these things to like expose myself to, is there a different way to be in the world than what I was taught? And again, it was really scary because at the same time, I'm experiencing all this shame and anxiety of my marriage doesn't look like this marriage should look and the church and all of this stuff.

And at that time, I had even more shame when I shared with people that were in the church. I felt too ashamed to really share it. But then there was a few people I did share with, and their responses were very much like, oh no, that's so bad that he's no longer a Christian, or he no longer believes those things. He's not the leader of the household, right? And so that just made me feel more ostracized.

and more alone in my questions. And I knew all of the things people in the church would say to kind of assuage my questions as well. When you grow up in it, you already know how the thinking works. And so, yeah, so I started to pull away from those spaces. So my deconstruction, as some would call it, was over a lot of years, and was really getting away and creating that felt safety again within my...

Kasey (12:26)
Mm-hmm.

SK (12:44)
body, or not again, really for the first time to feel safe in my body that I could come to my own conclusions that was different than the pastor or the church or the religion told me. And for me, that was through therapy and that was through creating safe relationships in my life that weren't about indoctrinating me into a certain belief system. And yeah, so that was...

There's so many thoughts there. That was the unraveling though. Was the really, I think the anchor was love and trying to find what that meant and losing what I thought that meant.

Kasey (13:11)
And.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love that you're setting love as the anchor. It is, I would like to turn there. And first, I just want to name for us all and our listeners, how much I hear that what was at stake for you was belonging.

SK (13:29)
Mm-hmm.

Kasey (13:42)
Um, and how often that's the case that there's this sort of rub in life to become who I really am, who I authentically feel I am. I have to first test where do I belong?

Emily (13:58)
Yeah, I would add that there are these experiences we have in life where we have this inner knowing. Like there is this part of us that knows what is happening or what I know isn't all of the story or isn't the correct version. And we start to look for what feels more authentic to us. And then at the same time, there can be these moments of like.

Kasey (14:04)
Yeah.

Emily (14:22)
Oh no, I'm losing my belonging in that. Where do I belong? Who am I now? Did that happen for you?

Kasey (14:27)
Exactly.

SK (14:30)
goodness, absolutely. Because that was again, that was everything, my purpose, my meaning in life had everything to do with the religion I was raised in. And so to move away from that meant that I no longer had this very like clear picture of the world and even the afterlife, right? It was like, to move from this really

intense certainty and the pro being I get to actually explore myself and get to know myself but to leave that certainty behind um it was it was really scary and um and it meant very much losing relationships that felt really

secure before to, oh, I didn't realize they felt secure because I agreed with all of this, but they don't now. They can't now because they it all kind of hinges on this concept of we were on the same team because we believe the same the same thing. So now I'm not on the same team. You know, I kind of

Kasey (15:45)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

SK (15:49)
hitting that us versus them mindset, which now I can really understand how, like there can be so much comfort from organized religion. You know, I can really see how the certainty can create, create some safety. Yeah, and I think where there's a disservice is,

Kasey (16:07)
Good.

SK (16:13)
keeping things in a black and white space instead of starting there and then helping people grow to to, could we offer more nuanced and more openness and more expansiveness around all of this, but yeah.

Kasey (16:30)
Yeah, it's one of the things I enjoy and respect about being in your presence is the way that you shape things up. You sound very much like nobody in my inner world gets to be wrong.

SK (16:35)
Yeah.

Kasey (16:42)
It's like everybody gets to be part of what's right or what the truth is. Um, I really appreciate that about you, SK. So let's start with the anchor of love. What have you, what do, what is love? What does it mean to you now given what you've learned?

SK (16:47)
Mm-hmm.

Oh, thank you.

Oh, that's an amazing question.

I'm sure I'll have another thought and answer in an hour, let alone in a year. And so to all your listeners, the timestamp of this moment is what my answer will be. But to me now, love is this experience of expansiveness and freedom and safety, right? Expansiveness, freedom, and safety, where

First, without safety, I can't access me. I'm just in survival. I need safety and not just safety, but felt safety in my body to know that I can be my creative, free self. And then from there, getting to experience love as this deep connection to...

the earth, to people, to friendships, to partners, like it can be so many things, but it has to be free because I have to be choosing it. And it can't be a choice like I either am eternally damned or I buy into that. That's not a choice. That's a setup, right? There's not.

there's not freedom in that. So it has to be where I get to choose to have that connection. So I think for me now, love is this experience of connection and with myself, like, oh my gosh, the love that I experienced for myself now, that it doesn't have to be so hindered on.

perfection and thinking the right way is just, it's so much more expansive. I can just love myself just because I'm human and like full stop. it's so freeing now to see love as this limitless thing we can all tap into no matter who you are, no matter your background, no matter your belief system.

Kasey (18:48)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

SK (19:05)
But yeah, this experience of just, oh yeah, deep connection and oneness. I don't know, we could go into all of it. Ha ha ha.

Kasey (19:16)
We can riff on spirituality. I'll nerd up there with you in the oneness and the interconnectedness of all of us Spiritual beings having what feels some days like a really hard human experience What would you say to those that are that haven't found the free kind of love that you're describing and experiencing yet? That maybe you're closer to the life that you grew out of

Emily (19:18)
Thank you.

SK (19:22)
Yeah.

to your heart.

Emily (19:30)
Yeah.

SK (19:41)
Yeah.

Kasey (19:45)
help build a bridge for the people who are listening.

SK (19:48)
You know, I think we're taught so much about love and possession and ownership as being one. If I love something, I wanna own it. If I love it, I wanna have it, right? And so I think that's just of the waters we swim in that we all, no matter our backgrounds,

We can't not ingest that. And the only way to detox that is to bring it into our consciousness that we confuse love and possession so much. And so this idea of love is not being something that is scarce and I don't have to own it to experience it. And so with

kind of romantic love and that's its own thing, getting to experience love and connection with multiple people doesn't mean that

you know, it's taking away from one person or one relationship. And I think we can all connect with this regardless of relationship structure or, or status of this. Like if I, if I have one friend I love, and then I have a really lovely connection with another friend, even the next night, like maybe we had a great conversation. Does that take away the experience I had with the first friend? No, it doesn't. They're just,

They're just lovely experiences where I felt connected and I felt like I could be myself. Same with family members, right? Like the love of a grandmother doesn't detract from the love of a mother, you know, when you have safety and connection in a relationship, it doesn't mean that's taking up all the pieces of the pie and now I can't have another one.

Emily (21:43)
What I heard you saying a few minutes ago is that love isn't all or nothing. Love is a choice. And when we have these relationships with people, different people provide different things for us. We have all kinds of needs. And your example in friendship, you have the friend where you call when you need to laugh because you know they're just going to make you giggle. And you have the friend you call when you're like, I had a really rough day and I need to vent.

There are all the varieties of friendship, and so love is like that.

Kasey (22:13)
Great point, Emily. And isn't it also true that it's when our friendships and romantic relationships get tangled up when we expect one person to be everything we need, rather than knowing that we get different needs met from different relationships and different relationship structures? So then it takes me to this place of, so it makes so much sense to hear you explain it, SK.

SK (22:34)
I'm sorry.

Kasey (22:42)
And so then why are we all tangled up about polyamory? What is the problem? Like help me understand.

SK (22:47)
Yeah... Well, you know, an-

I'm still very much in my own work around this, of deconstructing those narratives of in romantic love, it should only be one person and it should be, and it is a less valuable relationship if it doesn't last a lifetime or right. Like we've all been harmed by this message that the length of time of a relationship and it being the one and only in that person needing to fulfill all those needs

is what makes it matter when what makes it matter is the connection, the attachment, the safety, the joy, you know, that we get from that connection. Even if it's just a brief connection, if it was one of joy and safety and consent and,

love not in its sense of like, oh, you're my attachment person, right, but love in the sense of we just had a really great connection. You know, I think love can show up in so many different ways. And so it takes work to deprogram that though, of this idea that love has to look a certain way.

Kasey (23:49)
Yeah.

Yeah.

SK (24:09)
We're taught so much about what monogamy is without it being explicit. We don't know we're being taught that. And oftentimes there's toxic monogamy messages that get tied in with.

kind of this message of what relationships look like. But again, it's just kind of in the waters. So it's not like somebody, or at least it certainly wasn't in my experience where somebody sat down and said, okay, this is what you're gonna look for in a love relationship, and it's gonna be with one person, and it needs to last this many decades, or it doesn't really count. Right, like nobody did that, but I was certainly taught that, I was kind of taught in...

religious monogamy, that there's a lot of gender roles there and there's a lot of a lot of pieces. So it's not just about love, it's about all these kind of messages of what it should look like. And that's not to say that structure doesn't of even religious monogamy, there's people that feel very satisfied with their relationships in that structure, but where we get tangled, to your question Kasey, is

this idea that it has to look this one way. And this ostracizes and makes us afraid of queer people, of polyamorous relationships, of anybody who's different, right? When we add this layer of this is what's right, or even further, this is what's godly, right? Then we're really...

starting to get into this very, very kind of damning messaging towards anyone and shaming message that really hurts people. And I know I was really hurt by that because it meant I wasn't allowed to be myself or to explore and I certainly couldn't trust myself or my body around my experience of love.

Kasey (26:06)
Yeah, that's the unfortunate impact some of that right and wrong or what you said black and white thinking Has is if this is right and that's wrong and I don't fit Where do I go? And what does that mean for me and my access to love including gods?

SK (26:24)
Yeah. I heard a therapist. Yeah.

Emily (26:26)
If that's right and I'm wrong, then I'm unworthy, which you mentioned when we started off, you said, part of what came out of my upbringing was a sense of unworthiness. And then later you said, I now focus on the relationship with myself and loving myself and getting to be open. And so there is, of course, like you said that in any kind of relationship, people can feel worthy and feel a sense of love for themselves.

Kasey (26:30)
Right.

Emily (26:55)
and there's no one way to do it.

SK (26:57)
Yeah, that and so in my deconstruction, that was not the first thing to start unraveling, right? It was very much like started more broad as like, can I see inherent goodness of other people outside of this religion, right? It kind of was this like, and in that is a question about love. Can love exist out of this? And what is my experience of what's true? And then...

Kasey (27:05)
I'm sure.

SK (27:25)
staying in. So as I mentioned before, it was my partner who we were married very young and him questioning. And that really started to be this, what the fuck, right? It was so scary. Like, like, what does this mean? And am I going to lose you? And like all of that and to then really

come to my own conclusions around, oh no, I think love is more expansive and I actually think you're an even more loving person since he moved out of this kind of what he should be, a lot of shame and fear. And so then I was moving through shame and fear. And ours is a interesting experience because often for so many people I know who have done that,

the relationship that started when they were still in it can't serve them any longer because that was a foundational component to it was the religion and the matching of beliefs. And so I, for any listeners out there, I super celebrate the courage to leave relationships that don't serve any longer. And I know how painful and hard

in that experience can be and liberating and all of those things. So it's that takes a lot of courage to do that. My experience was such that we both were shifting and in our own ways at our own pace, but to where our connection still was around our chemistry and our enjoyment of each other to where we could have these massive shifts.

and stay together. And so we just celebrated our 12 years of being together, 10 years being married, although that comes with its own implications and thoughts on even that structure now. But even though it means different things to me now, what I very much celebrate with him is this love we have for each other.

that it is about we're choosing to be together. So we sort of came up with this structure to where we have every five years from now, so we did this at our 10 years, we have a kind of question of like, do we wanna opt into this again? Are we still in this and do we wanna opt in? And so we did like a vow renewal.

Kasey (30:04)
Yeah.

SK (30:09)
together to say, okay, what is this relationship founded on now? Because if it's not founded on monogamy, if it's not founded on a certain belief system, it's founded on our choice to be together that it's still something we want. And we're very much each other's attachment figures in the sense of being secure face, safe haven, you should read polysecure if you haven't all listeners, it's a great way of describing

Kasey (30:34)
Yeah.

SK (30:38)
attachment, right, and kind of our deeper connections in life. But anyway, so all that to say, getting to kind of have this deconstruction where down the line I started going, okay, who am I sexually? What is my sexuality? Beginning to understand I'm pansexual, and then we had our own experience of

the, what is our choice around relationship structure and rules and boundaries and doing our own stuff to try out different structures and see, okay, what fits. And that's really been in the last several years after many, many years of deconstructing other elements of all of this to then go, okay, I think, I think for me and my experience of love in my life.

Kasey (31:29)
again.

SK (31:36)
I want to have the freedom and expansiveness to have romantic love with multiple people as long as we're all consenting, as long as we're all satisfied with the way this structure works.

Kasey (31:50)
Yeah. And isn't that what relationships are supposed to be for? You know, sort of the sacred space that is meant to hold us all, as we go through our own self discovery, and development and try to navigate this complicated thing called life, right? What I love that you describe about your relationship with your husband is that it's like built on this continuous design.

SK (31:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Kasey (32:18)
process. Like here's who's here's who I feel like I am now, who's here now, and how do we want to design the structure and the playground and the playbook to make it work for both of us in a way that's honest and communicative and allowing and free. I mean what marriage couldn't be helped by adopting that design regardless of the church or not that it was blessed in?

SK (32:29)
Yes.

Yeah.

Kasey (32:47)
Right? It's what you're describing, I think, allows for this incredible, like, elasticity and transparency for two people really to do what, in my opinion, relationship is for, which is create the space for both of us to become and be our best, the very best version of ourselves in all of the ways. I have said for many years humorously, but I find it interesting now to hear it.

SK (32:53)
Yes.

Thank you.

Kasey (33:16)
like really serving your marriage that we should marriage should be deconstructed and like rebuilt in, in like the same way athletes do contract years. So every five years we sit down together and go like, does this still work for me? Um, and then you think about how well athletes perform when it's a contract renewal year, you know, like, could we all not bring our better selves to the table hoping for renewal?

SK (33:43)
Mm-hmm.

Kasey (33:43)
instead of like some of the taking for granted that we get up to, I just I think a lot of couples, even monogamous, you know, straight relationship structures could learn from what you're offering.

SK (33:56)
Hmm. I think even just that question. Yeah, like do we opt into this then makes us go? Oh, okay. Yeah My partner is a separate person Esther Perel talks so much about this in her work with couples of like how Desire and that connection and motivation to be with someone is so connected to being able to view them Separately and move away from that kind of enmeshment of we are we are one

Emily (33:57)
Absolutely. I

Kasey (34:03)
Yeah.

Yeah.

SK (34:26)
to, oh you're a separate person and to be with you, I need to be doing things and engaged in this and not just taking you for granted. Um, yeah.

Kasey (34:37)
Yeah. And we need to have the deliciousness of the conflict that diversity brings. Right? It's when we avoid that kind of conflict that we kind of mesh into each other. And then all of a sudden, where did where did the fire that burns our passion go? You know? Yeah.

SK (34:43)
Yeah

Emily (34:56)
The irony is that I think when we avoid the conflict, I almost see it in the opposite way. Like instead of meshing, we turn away. We're no longer seeing each other because we're not the same person we were yesterday or a year ago or 10 years ago. We are always growing. So how could we ever fully know that person that we're sharing life with? Sarah K. I'm so curious how you and your partner...

Kasey (35:04)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Emily (35:22)
figured out how to have those conversations. How did you create the script for it or the outline? What did you do to make it so that it felt safe for both of you to show up honestly?

SK (35:36)
it helped to have support. So we've done couples therapy throughout the years. And that was huge for, there's a few in particular turning points that kind of I can clearly go, that helped us get through that hump and that helped us get through that hump. So I would say early on, one of the turning points was that we...

Went into therapy couples therapy and funny enough. It was actually My partner that was like we should do this and even though I was in school for To become a counselor. I was like no I was terrified. I was like no we're perfect There's no issues here, which obviously if you're saying there's no issues That's maybe something to

Kasey (36:12)
Hmm. No.

Clean issue.

SK (36:21)
Yeah, yeah, I was adamant, nope, we don't have problems. And that was part of my conditioning too, and conflict avoidance and my own attachment stuff and dynamics and how I grew up was like, okay, we're just gonna keep the peace, we're gonna just get, you know, everything's fine. And so conflict was terrifying for me early on and in our relationship. And we were so young when we got together. And so I did an excellent job avoiding.

Emily (36:21)
Yeah.

SK (36:50)
Which does not have no repercussions, right? And so being able to move towards then with a therapist who helped go Hey, y'all are not as fragile as you think you are you actually can have these conversations and Teach us how to repair and so the things that were the glue over the years to have the conversation was

Emily (36:51)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

SK (37:19)
making sure we did have safety in the conversations that when things were beginning to escalate, to take breaks, to not do damage where then we got a lot more we need to repair. So being able to have conflict well and know when we were hitting limits of attachment panic where then I'm going to start yelling or you're going to start shutting down, being able to catch those things. So that way.

Again, they weren't doing irreparable damage. And then of course we still had those moments. So then once we're grounded again, be able to come back together and work on what the thing was. And this is a long process over things that are deep to our sense of security and self. And so fast forward later in our relationship when we're starting to talk about

you know, what do we want our relationship structure to look like? And at, you know, hindsight 2020, I'm like, oh, I can talk about this now, and we're both ethically non-monogamous, we both are polyamorous, right, and it can make it seem like, oh, we just transitioned into this structure with ease, and that is so far from the truth. Oh my gosh, it was terrifying, it was tumultuous.

I didn't know would we stay together through this process because you don't know and in exploring that you have to be open to finding out Who the other person is and that's scary to go I'm gonna discover who you are and we might change in ways that mean we decide to like conscious uncoupling as they say and

Kasey (38:49)
Mm.

SK (39:16)
that's a real possibility. So it is a scary thing to go towards conflict because you don't know where it'll lead. But I also experienced the benefit of the relationship being deeply connected and where I really know my partner and I know him well. And I get to fall in love with him all over again because I'm getting to know the newer iteration of who he is because as I'm doing all of my own work,

around who am I, so was he. And so getting to keep getting to know each other. And this is true for anyone, right? As no matter if you changed belief systems or came out of a high control religious environment, we're always changing. And that's a part of the fun of being in a relationship is getting to know who the person becomes and see what that's like. And our relationship is...

different than it was 10 years ago

Kasey (40:17)
Your relationship sounds to me like it has been steadfast in its commitment to the truth.

and like being with the authenticity and the honesty of that. And I just happen to know that that's not true for all people and that's okay too. You know, it's like we're making this assumption that there's a commitment in the world to growth and expansion. And some aren't, some are like perfectly satisfied and fulfilled with things as they are.

SK (40:36)
Exactly. I like-

No.

Kasey (40:52)
and don't seek for them to expand or grow. And I just want to give a nod to say permission for comfort too. And I personally resonate so much with the courage and the stretch that I know comes with this hunger for truth and expansion and allowing whatever is real to be surfaced and loved.

SK (40:59)
Yes.

I'm so glad you said that, Kasey, because even looking, and I think anyone who's been in a long relationship too, you can see the seasons and the ebb and flow of like, there was times where it would not have been supportive for us to change, grow, shift. We needed some level of stability and constancy. And so it wasn't the time to be in therapy or it wasn't the time to be working on certain things as a couple.

that can be kind of like scary because I had heard someone say recently of like moving through deconstruction, then their new religion became self-help, right? And we can do that, I've done that, absolutely. Of like, okay, now my worthiness is, you know, dependent on my continual growth and my continual like bettering myself, right? And let me read all the books, right? And there's something wrong with that. And, and, right, and.

Kasey (41:57)
Yeah, exactly!

You're guilty.

SK (42:16)
And being able to just again come back to like, for me, come back to choice and where I'm at now and grace for the relationship can have times where things are just fucking hard and that's just what it is and we're not shifting. And also there can be times where we are exploring a new path.

Kasey (42:30)
Yeah.

SK (42:39)
to expansion together or separately and how that looks can change. And so I so agree with you of like to any listeners out there just that one, it's outside of our control and a real gift if we happen to have a partner who's willing to grow and change with us. And that's just not true for everyone. And so be gentle with yourself. If you're hearing my story and going, my partner wouldn't be open to growing or shifting.

and some of the ways you're talking about. And I hope that person just gets lots of love and support from all of their relationships because that, yeah, when our goals are different from our partners can be a real hard thing. And so, but we can't control other people, right?

We've all tried. And it's not fun. It doesn't lead to things that feel free and loving and kind. And so just to give ourselves grace that we are who we're with who we're with. And from there, we get to choose what we want. And so I only have certain choices based on the person I'm with and what are negotiable and what are non-negotiable.

Kasey (43:33)
Yeah.

Emily (43:34)
Thank you.

Kasey (43:50)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

SK (44:01)
So that's a conversation.

Emily (44:01)
And it all comes back to our relationship with ourself. I mean, truly every, there's so many different words that I'm like, oh, I wish I could remember all of them, that both of you have said today, but love is expansive, freedom, safety, choice, truth, growth, shift, that it's all these things, but it's within us. And so even if you don't have a partner who you are sharing these things with or who's willing to share these things,

when you turn back to yourself and go, okay, what do I need? And that sometimes that does mean, I need just to do nothing right now. I just need to be, be who I am.

I think that sums it up.

SK (44:43)
Thanks for watching!

Yeah, it's so true. Hmm. Oh, there's so many important things that I just feel so grateful to talk to both of you about this kind of idea of returning to ourselves and who we are as people and what makes sense and what resonates.

Emily (44:44)
Yeah. Any last thoughts? Anything we didn't touch on?

SK (45:05)
So yeah, I love the kind of return to self love. So yeah, I would say

in that process, learning how to be gentle with myself and take that one day at a time.

Finding myself in the midst of all the things I was indoctrinated into Took a lot of gentleness to go at my own pace and I

totally have parts of myself that are high achievers that are like, let's get there, right? So if anyone is feeling that sense of like, I'm not there yet. I so hear you. And what for me gentleness looked like was being able to go, okay, where am I at today? And what do I need?

Kasey (45:38)
Yes!

Emily (45:40)
Thank you.

Kasey (45:44)
Yeah.

SK (45:56)
and even just whether it's navigating that with a partner and questions around that of, okay, where am I at today and what do I need with this person? Or within myself of, okay, where am I at today and what do I need? And just what a gift that is to be our own caregiver, to be our own nurturer and find that kind of inner connection.

Kasey (46:10)
Yeah.

Emily (46:24)
Well, thank you for sharing this time with us. You are so wise, and I know we have so much more to learn from you.

Kasey (46:33)
Yeah, SoulStirred listeners can look forward to more of SK. We're gonna be having you back. I heard all of the different threads that are currently penned that we wanna come back and dive down into each of those lanes with you in a thoughtful and meaningful way. There's so much here for our listening audience, for us, and for me personally. I'm sitting here taking all of this in like a sponge and learning even as we're in this conversation with each other.

SK (46:36)
Oh, thank you.

Emily (46:37)
Yes.

For our listeners, if you are interested in contacting SK, by the way, she goes by Sarah Kate or SK. So either way, if you're interested in getting in touch with her, check the show notes. All of her contact information is there. All right, everyone. Thank you for spending the time with us. Have a wonderful day.

SK (47:20)
Thank you.

Kasey (47:21)
Take great care of yourselves and take great care of each other. See you next time on SoulStirred.

Emily Garcia (47:32)
Thanks so much for joining us on this episode of SoulStirred, Stories of Growth and the Human Experience. We hope our stories have touched your heart and sparked reflections in your own journey.

Therapist, we are not your therapist and this podcast is not a substitute for therapy. If you find yourself in need of professional support, please don't hesitate to seek it. Your well-being is important and there are professionals out there who are ready to help. We encourage you to carry the spirit of growth and connection with you. Life is a continuous journey and we're honored to be part of yours. Stay tuned for more captivating stories in the episodes to come.

Until then, take care of yourselves and each other.